Podcast Interview by Non-Constituency Member of Parliament Leong Mun Wai

12.00 pm

Mr Speaker: Order. Before we proceed to Question Time, I have an announcement to make.

Hon Members, it was brought to my attention that Non-Constituency Member of Parliament (NCMP) Mr Leong Mun Wai was interviewed for a podcast “Yah Lah BUT”. This was hosted by Haresh and Terence and which appeared in YouTube and TikTok on various days in May 2024. Mr Leong also shared the podcast on his Facebook page.

During the interview, the following exchange took place between Haresh, the interviewer for “Yah Lah BUT”, and Mr Leong:

"Mr Haresh said, 'Whenever the Speaker says, okay, any questions, you’re one of the first to put your hands up.'

Mr Leong Mun Wai replied, 'And one of the last to be called.'.”

Hereafter, I will refer to this as "the Statement".

Arising from the Statement, I had asked for information on the occasions that Mr Leong was called upon to make supplementary questions and clarifications in Parliament from August 2023 to May this year.

The record provides no basis for the Statement. It showed that Mr Leong was called for supplementary questions and clarifications earlier than other Members on many occasions, and that I had called him more than once on repeated occasions within the same item of business. Since Mr Leong was present during the relevant Sittings and would know the facts, the Statement is a gross misrepresentation of the proceedings of Parliament.

The Statement also suggests that Mr Leong is somehow treated differently from other Members and that his clarifications and supplementary questions have been de-prioritised. The Statement cast aspersions on my fairness and impartiality in calling Members. This is a reflection on my character as the Speaker, touching on my conduct of parliamentary proceedings.

On 22 June 2024, I wrote to Mr Leong asking him for the basis of the Statement made by him.

On 25 June 2024, Mr Leong replied to me. I will now quote the relevant extract of his email. It said:

“The Statement was a tongue-in-cheek response, and a light-hearted comment made at the start of the interview to lighten the mood in the context of a podcast. I had no intention whatsoever to cast any aspersion on your impartiality in Parliament.

I will be posting a Facebook clarification on the Statement to remove any misunderstanding.”

On the same day, Mr Leong put up a clarification on his Facebook page, the relevant portion of which reads as follows:

“The Speaker has since brought to my attention that my quip may be construed as casting aspersions on his impartiality in calling MPs.

I would like to clarify that my comment was a tongue-in-cheek response to Haresh’s comment ('one of the first to put your hands up' and 'one of the last to be called'), a response that was meant to be a light-hearted one made at the start of the interview to lighten the mood in the context of a podcast. This was in no way meant to be a comment on Speaker’s impartiality. Speaker has, on various occasions, called me ahead of other Members.”

In his 25 June 2024 reply, Mr Leong stated that he had no intention whatsoever to cast any aspersion on my impartiality in Parliament. He also requested for a meeting with me, before the next Parliamentary Sitting to clarify the matter in person.

I met Mr Leong in my chambers on 26 June 2024. At the meeting, I informed Mr Leong that I had checked the Parliamentary record since I was elected as the Speaker. The fact is, it is not true that whenever Mr Leong raised his hand to ask questions, he was one of the last to be called.

I told him that, even if he did not intend to cast aspersions on my fairness and impartiality in calling Members, the Statement does give rise to such an innuendo and reflects on my character in conducting Parliamentary proceedings.

Mr Leong repeated his explanation that the Statement was made in jest to make the podcast more light-hearted. He added that he never said the Speaker was unfair nor did he intend to make any insinuation about my character or conduct in Parliament.

I explained to Mr Leong that even if the Statement was made “tongue-in-cheek” and was a “light-hearted comment”, it does not change the fact that the Statement is attributed to me, that there was no basis for the Statement and it should not have been made.

At the meeting, Mr Leong stated that I had been fair to him when calling Members to ask questions. I thanked him for his clarification and asked Mr Leong to submit this in writing.

After the meeting with Mr Leong, I sent him an email on 26 June 2024, asking for a written statement from him in which he should:

(a) apologise for (i) giving the misleading impression that he was “one of the last to be called” whenever the Speaker asks for questions, and thereby misrepresenting the proceedings of Parliament; and (ii) implying that he was somehow treated differently from other MPs seeking to ask questions by the Speaker, which reflects that the Speaker is not fair and impartial; and

(b) acknowledge that I have conducted the proceedings of Parliament in a fair and impartial manner, and have treated him fairly.

Mr Leong’s reply was sent to me on 28 June 2024, the relevant portions of which read as follows:

“I would like to clarify that the Statement was a tongue-in-cheek comment made spontaneously in response to Haresh’s comment. It was a light-hearted comment made at the start of the interview to lighten the mood in the context of a podcast. Neither Haresh’s comment nor my Statement were scripted. We did not discuss beforehand what would be brought up during the interview.

I had no intention whatsoever to cast any aspersion on the impartiality of the Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to state for the record that I am satisfied with the time and opportunities that Speaker Seah Kian Peng has given me to ask questions since he took over as Speaker in August 2023. Mr Speaker has, on various occasions, called me ahead of other Members.”

In his reply, Mr Leong went further than his first reply to state that: (a) he was satisfied with the time and opportunities that I had given him to ask questions and (b) I had, on various occasions, called him ahead of other Members.

I wrote to Mr Leong again on 30 June 2024 informing him that I was grateful for his clarification (a) that he had no intention to cast aspersions on my impartiality as the Speaker, (b) that he was satisfied with the time and opportunities that I had given to him to ask questions, and (c) that I had on various occasions called him ahead of other Members.

However, I stated that his second clarification of 28 June 2024 did not contain the apologies requested for. In order to close the matter, I gave Mr Leong a final opportunity to make a written apology and the necessary clarifications.

So, on 1 July 2024, Mr Leong wrote to me a third email – this was yesterday – the relevant portions of which read as follows:

“First, I thank you for accepting my clarification that I had no intention to cast aspersions on your impartiality as the Speaker.

Given that you accept that there was no intention to cast aspersions on your impartiality as the Speaker, I trust you will agree that it would not be accurate to make an apology that suggests any intention to mislead listeners on my part.

However, to bring this matter to a close, I retract my words spoken on the 'Yah Lah BUT' podcast stating that I was 'one of the last to be called' and confirm I had no intention to imply that I was somehow treated differently from other MPs seeking to ask questions by you as Speaker, which reflects that you as the Speaker am [sic] not fair and impartial. For the record, I confirm that this has not happened to me under your term as Speaker.”

So, in his third email of 1 July 2024, Mr Leong retracted the Statement and confirmed that he had no intention to imply that he was somehow treated differently from other MPs by me. Mr Leong also stated that such unfair treatment had not happened to him during my term as Speaker.

I have given careful and due consideration to the totality of Mr Leong’s explanations conveyed in his letters dated 25 June 2024, 28 June 2024 and 1 July 2024, and in his meeting with me on 26 June 2024.

I want to emphasise that Members sitting in the House will know what happened in our proceedings. If you then proceed to say that something different happened in the House, even in jest, you are wilfully misrepresenting our proceedings. The misrepresentation is made more serious if it reflects on the character of a fellow Member or the Chair. As honourable Members, we should not be engaging in such conduct, whether in jest or otherwise. That is why I felt an apology was to be forthcoming from Mr Leong.

Having said that, I also considered that Mr Leong had, firstly, agreed to retract the Statement that he made on the podcast; secondly, that he was satisfied with the time and opportunities that I had given to him to ask questions; thirdly, clarified that I had on various occasions called him ahead of other Members; and fourthly, confirmed that I had not treated him differently from other MPs in asking questions.

I am satisfied that Mr Leong’s clarifications taken in totality have mitigated the misleading impression of the Statement. I have also taken due note of his clarification that I have been fair and impartial.

The Clerk will be distributing all the above letters recording my exchanges with Mr Leong to Members for reference. I have also instructed that these be made part of the Hansard record. [A handout was distributed to hon Members. Please refer to Annex 1.]

I now consider the matter closed.

Going ahead, I would like to warn all Members that these are serious matters and such acts of contempt should not be repeated again, regardless of a Member’s intention.

The proceedings of Parliament and the conduct of Members, be it an Elected, Non-constituency or Nominated Member, Leader of the Opposition, Minister or any other office-holder, are not matters which should be taken lightly and cannot be made in jest. That is why section 31(g) and (h) of the Parliament (Privileges, Immunities and Powers) Act 1962 makes it a contempt of Parliament to make any statement which reflects on the character of the Speaker or any Member touching on his conduct in Parliament or anything done or said by him in Parliament, or to publish wilfully any false or perverted report containing a gross or scandalous misrepresentation of any debate or proceedings of Parliament.

These rules are not new to Members. In a statement to Parliament just last year, on 18 April 2023, the Leader of the House had drawn Members’ attention to the relevant rules relating to the conduct of Members to be observed both inside and outside of the House. The Leader of the House also circulated a note which highlighted, among other rules, section 31(g), (h) and (k) of the Parliament (Privileges, Immunities and Powers) Act 1962. These provisions relate to statements reflecting on Members in their Parliamentary roles, statements reflecting on Parliament and false reports of Parliamentary proceedings.

Today’s matter is not the first incident relating to Mr Leong. In her statement, the Leader of the House stated that the note was prepared having regard to recent incidents involving Mr Leong. I will not repeat what is contained in the handout, but I would encourage all Members to re-read it again.

At the heart of it, the issue is more than a collection of rules. It really about the proper functioning of our democratic system of Government. Parliament plays an integral role in the formation of a sound Parliamentary system and it is the forum where the Government explains and accounts for policies and laws to Members and through them, to the people. Our Members, past and present, have through the years earned the trust of the people. We need to uphold these rules and jealously guard that trust to maintain the confidence and respect our electorate has in our institution, and not bring Parliament into disrepute.

12.16 pm

As the Speaker of Parliament, it is my duty to protect that trust by upholding the rules of Parliament, by being fair and impartial in the conduct of my duties and by maintaining decorum in Parliament. I trust that all Members will also play their part in upholding the rules of Parliament. Order.

Questions for Oral Answer.